tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post1519472694716432379..comments2024-03-27T21:23:40.339-04:00Comments on Chemjobber: The scientist's Kobayashi MaruChemjobberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15932113680515602275noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-14360895600517926852017-01-10T13:42:52.858-05:002017-01-10T13:42:52.858-05:00I completely agree - this is nothing short of hazi...I completely agree - this is nothing short of hazing. This section really disappointed me.<br /><br />The truth is (and I say this as someone who was a grad student in the earth sciences once upon a time), every grad student will eventually realize that some task s/he spent hours meticulously laboring on failed and that they have to start over. It will probably happen more than once. Why stage a fake task when you can use a real situation as a TEACHING moment? That is so much more powerful and poignant. <br /><br />I fail to understand this environment of manipulation. Her role as a graduate adviser is to provide her support to budding scientists and guide them when she sees them go astray. <br /><br />The only people whose characters are being judged in this fake exercise and Hope and Bill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-38968570989096182422016-05-24T15:41:58.771-04:002016-05-24T15:41:58.771-04:00Yeah, I think there's a variety of different w...Yeah, I think there's a variety of different ways that it was not a "normal" trip. Chemjobberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15932113680515602275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-58597222520323412742016-05-24T15:32:05.242-04:002016-05-24T15:32:05.242-04:00Hmmmm, I was considering reading that book after a...Hmmmm, I was considering reading that book after all the hype - this story really turns me off! Jeez what an idiotic 'test', not to mention the extrapolation and (over)interpretation into scientific 'character'. One can only hope that Dr.Jahren is a wee bit more careful in the analysis of her data. And BTW, anyone who has traveled internationally even once ought to know that carrying biological / agricultural materials (food, plants, fruit) across borders is often a big no-no, for obvious reasons. Pretty silly to not have investigated permits before the enthusiastic collection effort. But then, I haven't read the book, perhaps there's more to the story that explains the lapse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-87094970703329017512016-05-11T15:19:43.366-04:002016-05-11T15:19:43.366-04:00@Anon 8:13PM: You're probably right, but I was...@Anon 8:13PM: You're probably right, but I was also thinking how this would look for a male professor to brag about frustrating (an example) female student(s). Twitter would be alight!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-43851085409744364962016-05-09T20:13:31.302-04:002016-05-09T20:13:31.302-04:00From the above passage in the book:
"Whenever...From the above passage in the book:<br />"Whenever we got a new recruit to the lab, his or her first task was to label empty vials, hundreds of them."<br /><br />This pointless task is foisted on all the undergrads, male or female. The passage goes on to describe one male undergrad who met Jahren's exacting standards, standards which I think prove nothing. It's equal opportunity uselessness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-30129117474926003862016-05-09T12:50:44.987-04:002016-05-09T12:50:44.987-04:00A female scientist is literally hazing male studen...A female scientist is literally hazing male students to make them drop out of science. Is that the kind of sexual harassment in labs she "shines a light" on?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-17867460893853681642016-05-09T09:20:07.339-04:002016-05-09T09:20:07.339-04:00OT, but Roddenberry had almost nothing to do with ...OT, but Roddenberry had almost nothing to do with TWOK- The script was written by Nicholas Meyer and Harve Bennett.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-1328487954185790472016-05-07T10:18:32.577-04:002016-05-07T10:18:32.577-04:00I'm in agreement with every one of these point...I'm in agreement with every one of these points.See Arr Ohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09464185815368499346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-18851973130631154622016-05-07T10:04:55.322-04:002016-05-07T10:04:55.322-04:00When I was in grad school 25 years ago, I washed o...When I was in grad school 25 years ago, I washed out vials and reused them, over and over again. And our institute was fairly well-funded. <br /><br />I agree, this is a waste of time for the undergrad, and a waste of money. It makes me wonder if Jahren was hazed in a similar way when she started doing research.<br /><br />I do want to add that her shining a light on sexual harassment in research labs is on the mark.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-85224697346174235632016-05-06T17:23:40.245-04:002016-05-06T17:23:40.245-04:00Who's paying for all of those wasted vials and...Who's paying for all of those wasted vials and this meaningless hazing? Does that come from a grant?<br /><br />It might seem like a trivial thing, but, good grief, it's ridiculous. When I was a n00b grad student this would have terribly confused me. If I was to go into that lab now, with my years of experience having worked with both awesome and awful faculty, I'd have looked them in the eye and told them to stuff it and get over themselves. <br /><br />How exactly does this stupidity contribute towards the mission of the lab, the college, and the university? How does it contribute towards the objectives and aims of whomever pays for their research? Cibatarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17085975700051398946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-71252770280260055952016-05-05T08:39:29.035-04:002016-05-05T08:39:29.035-04:00The purpose of the Kobayashi Maru is never clear f...The purpose of the Kobayashi Maru is never clear from what I've seen of Star Trek. However, from Roddenberry's perspective, I can see it serving two purposes: <br /><br />1) It's an anecdote for establishing that Kirk's rebellious genius is legendary in his own time.<br /><br />2) It illustrates Roddenberry's own optimistic philosophy: There are never no-win propositions when human ingenuity is involved.<br /><br />The test here is doing something similar here (at a meta-level) except it's meant to elevate the test-giver...and fails miserably. And the philosophy it illustrates is the complete opposite of the Kobayashi Maru: The test-taker is "successful" only if he or she wastes time without questioning the system. Or in the exceptional case of Josh, he achieves legendary status by wasting even more time trying to save his boss a few pennies.<br /><br />I'd say tests like Jahren's never test anything useful...much like the Kobayashi Maru wouldn't tell much about the character of the Starfleet Academy cadets. It only serves a narrative purpose: It's a story Jahren likes to tell herself and others to highlight a peculiar set of values she holds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-43982456630519290782016-05-04T21:59:29.247-04:002016-05-04T21:59:29.247-04:00Good thing I don't have to do this sort of thi...Good thing I don't have to do this sort of thing in chemistry. I just teach them how to run a column to the best of my ability. It's guaranteed it will result in a wasted day's work in the first few weeks. Why, just two days ago I ran two columns on my product and failed to separate it, which made me feel like garbage because I separated harder stuff before and this time I took shortcuts... What made me feel like an even bigger piece of human garbage was that between the two columns I played a recent RPG download from Steam for three hours. At least the day wasn't a complete waste since I managed to make it out of the first dungeon.<br /><br />It's awesome how many of the comments are lashing out at her though. Definitely a bit of 'high on their own moral outrage' quality there. Sure I don't agree with her methods, but I'm not going to get bent out of shape for her wasting a day of her employee's time on it. And I haven't even read the book. Truly this shows that even scientists can get high on bad brain patterns that they lock onto a single passage in a book they haven't read to bash someone just so they can feel more righteous. <br /><br />www.davidbrin.com/addiction.htmluncle samnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-15164794295086206552016-05-04T17:03:51.156-04:002016-05-04T17:03:51.156-04:00"...leaving Good Cop to observe the newbie...<i>"...leaving Good Cop to observe the newbie's reaction....I caught Bill's eye and <b>we smiled</b> at each other, <b>knowing</b> that we'd identified yet another ..."</i> (sucker)<br /><br />This sort of situation will come up naturally but then, she wouldn't have the payoff of seeing the expression on this poor lab rat personally. That's where she and her husband <i>really</i> get their unseemly thrills. <i>"We <b>smiled."</b></i><br /><br />Yeah, poor job as PI, miserable failure as human being. No stars, would not read again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-51479206851439966852016-05-04T16:18:11.084-04:002016-05-04T16:18:11.084-04:00By the way, I'm not arguing that this is a dec...By the way, I'm not arguing that this is a decent thing to do to your worker. Extremely wasteful both in terms of time and resources. I'm sure that her funding agency wouldn't like to hear that she purchased hundreds of vials just to throw them away. Further, pretty much any project will have this sort of situation come up naturally a couple of times; there's no need at all to provide additional set-backs.The Iron Chemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-86646854173705304932016-05-04T16:11:10.082-04:002016-05-04T16:11:10.082-04:00Go to med school.Go to med school.The Iron Chemistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-34487331489122759712016-05-04T10:56:51.582-04:002016-05-04T10:56:51.582-04:00NMH - I'm talking about perpetrating abuse and...NMH - I'm talking about perpetrating abuse and sexism, in addition to standing idly by while colleagues do it. As for the comment about outsourcing support staff, most of those Provosts, Chancellors, Deans, etc started their careers as professors and later moved into administration, and would be horrified if a big, mean corporation did the exact same thing.KTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-83922490197794821582016-05-04T10:33:02.379-04:002016-05-04T10:33:02.379-04:00Quite common at my former employer: Ph.D. biochemi...Quite common at my former employer: Ph.D. biochemist laid off from cancer institute, drove big trucks in the oilfield for while before moving to the lab for a chem tech/BS position; Ph.D. chemist with post-doc experience applying for chem tech positions (eventually got hired on as a researcher, almost made it through a year before oil crash/layoff). Comments from several lab managers that they were getting people ridiculously overqualified with advanced degrees and/or experience applying for entry-level tech positions.Chemistringnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-45823364224585467582016-05-04T10:18:20.216-04:002016-05-04T10:18:20.216-04:00I agree that it is a crappy thing to do to student...I agree that it is a crappy thing to do to students, but it doesn't mean that her efforts to help women in science are invalid. We need to get away from the mindset that we need perfect women role models and anything less just doesn't count. She's putting herself out there and that is having an impact on the large scale. I do the best I can to be a good advisor to my students of both genders and an advocate for women in science, but what I do is on a local level. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-38003549671259417982016-05-04T08:44:47.399-04:002016-05-04T08:44:47.399-04:00Well, just as long its not their salary being affe...Well, just as long its not their salary being affected, and everything is fine, right?<br /><br />I find most people are unwilling to try fix bad, unfair situations because 1.) their too busy and 2.) their salary is not affected. NMHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-15908039608669210092016-05-04T08:41:43.321-04:002016-05-04T08:41:43.321-04:00It's amazing how well academics can compartmen...It's amazing how well academics can compartmentalize. They're the most vocally left-wing people you'll ever meet at a cocktail party, but they're very good at turning off their beliefs when it comes to sexist treatment of female scientists, abuse of grad student quasi-employees, or quietly firing support staff like cafeteria workers and janitors and replacing them with low-paid outside contractors.KTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-88187145833004569912016-05-04T08:23:12.085-04:002016-05-04T08:23:12.085-04:00That woman mistreats her undergrads, yet her shtic...That woman mistreats her undergrads, yet her shtick is Women in Academia (and how poorly the awful men treat them). How do you manage to square that up, except with a huge dose of compartmentalization and no introspection at all. And just how conceited do you have to be to be to name your blog "Hope Jahren sure can write"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-18138170062892408792016-05-04T08:22:30.305-04:002016-05-04T08:22:30.305-04:00Hope Jahren is giving kids the impression that the...Hope Jahren is giving kids the impression that the way to a PhD is to grit your teeth through 5-6 years of unpleasantness, and I damn near became a Jason Altom trying to do that. The hazing-like atmosphere of grad school is why I stayed in for far too long after I should have quit - I was under the impression that it's like boot camp, where there's a reward at the end if you can grit your teeth through the pain.KTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-76865847496557893792016-05-03T18:33:58.782-04:002016-05-03T18:33:58.782-04:00This is a terrible way to test the character of a ...This is a terrible way to test the character of a student. Writing about it with (so it seems to me) obvious pride reflects poorly on Hope Jahren as a lab manager.<br /><br />In keeping with the <i>Kobayashi Maru</i> theme in the title, though, what would a James T. Kirk solution to this test be? What would Montgomery Scott do?<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobayashi_MaruAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13610558193958763387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-17433957233887845552016-05-03T15:40:32.742-04:002016-05-03T15:40:32.742-04:00I'd say it was an excellent test of character,...I'd say it was an excellent test of character, actually. Hope failed it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-84966082514123796632016-05-03T15:36:37.737-04:002016-05-03T15:36:37.737-04:00Proof again that seemingly likable people can be h...Proof again that seemingly likable people can be horrendously poor supervisors. What a massive and embarrassing waste of time and resources, the worst part is that she is likely quite proud of it. No wonder the incidence of mental illness so high for young researchers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com