tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post687294407665500755..comments2024-03-27T21:23:40.339-04:00Comments on Chemjobber: ACS Presidential Candidate Bryan Balazs on #chemjobs issuesChemjobberhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15932113680515602275noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-51127206983137275392015-09-25T02:26:45.812-04:002015-09-25T02:26:45.812-04:00Thanks, I will study this report before following ...Thanks, I will study this report before following through with my congresswoman. Just this afternoon, I did indeed initially discuss with her local representative what the correct strategy would be to bring this up.<br /><br />For the moment, I will agree that the situation for academic post-doc fellows is fundamentally worse than for those with the government. I can't comment on industrial post-docs. For that matter, quoting from https://fellowship.llnl.gov/ :<br />"Outcomes: At the conclusion of the fellowship, approximately 60% of the fellows secure a staff position at LLNL. The majority of those who leave obtain tenure-track positions at top-tier universities including MIT, Stanford, and UC Berkeley. A number of former fellows have started their own companies. "<br />....as opposed to the use/abuse/discard program by which academic post-docs are treated.<br /><br />Since last writing, I have noticed that the DoD also uses a very similar wording, especially regarding that magic word which damns one's intellect and abilities to irrelevance, namely "five".<br /><br />https://fellowship.llnl.gov/Generic Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17368825556427261716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-5235065160988695512015-09-24T19:50:43.541-04:002015-09-24T19:50:43.541-04:00GC, regarding post-doc positions at the national l...GC, regarding post-doc positions at the national labs, I offer a quote from a National Academies 2014 study on post-docs, "...postdoctoral researchers in industry and at national laboratories do not face the same problems as academic postdoctoral researchers. Their roles are better defined, salaries are higher, terms are shorter, and the connection to career development is clearer. For this reason the recommendations that follow are intended to address the problems primarily encountered by postdoctoral researchers in the academic setting."<br /><br />For the full National Academies report, see: http://www.nap.edu/catalog/18982/the-postdoctoral-experience-revisited<br />Bryan Balazsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-7650751629533181822015-09-24T00:42:05.757-04:002015-09-24T00:42:05.757-04:00That's a good idea!That's a good idea!Generic Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17368825556427261716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-61288101202409209862015-09-23T16:17:43.127-04:002015-09-23T16:17:43.127-04:00" straightening out the disfunctional job mar..." straightening out the disfunctional job market would be with the federal labs"<br /><br />I'm curious why you think the ACS has any influence over Federal labs? Has the ACS ever claimed this? I assume the ACS has as much responsibility for Federal labs as it does for the boiling point of DMF. Seems to me you'd have more luck trying to get your congressional reps, who actually control DOE that is responsible for the labs, to act. <br /><br /><br /><br />biotechtoreadornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-4815068631806387972015-09-23T15:43:42.601-04:002015-09-23T15:43:42.601-04:00Those seven URLS are in addition to the two earlie...Those seven URLS are in addition to the two earlier ones which I have posted. I accumulated all of that data in the process of my own job search activities. <br /><br />It is possible that a good place to set an initial example in straightening out the disfunctional job market would be with the federal labs. That would make a further contribution towards establishing the legitimacy of the basis of your campaign for the ACS presidency.Generic Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17368825556427261716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-28499425982956217672015-09-23T15:36:55.619-04:002015-09-23T15:36:55.619-04:00Bryan, over the past week, I have been collecting ...Bryan, over the past week, I have been collecting the adverts for positions with national labs. Seven were post-doc adverts, with implied age discrimination, two were not. Of the two which were not, one was at the director level, and therefore it is possible that the management is obligated to continue advertising until negotiations with whoever are complete. My data is not statistically complete, this is just a sampling which arose during my own job searching activities:<br />#1<br />https://jobszp1.lanl.gov/OA_HTML/OA.jsp?OAFunc=IRC_VIS_VAC_DISPLAY&OAMC=R&p_svid=44995&p_spid=2071218&p_lang_code=US<br />#2<br />http://pnnl.jobs/richland-wa/post-doc-research-associate-organic-chemistry-and-electrochemistry/1542029DF673424DA2F1A38336DDA505/job/?vs=27<br />#3<br />https://jobszp1.lanl.gov/OA_HTML/OA.jsp?OAFunc=IRC_VIS_VAC_DISPLAY&OAMC=R&p_svid=44417&p_spid=2046220&p_lang_code=US<br />#4<br />http://jobsearch.asme.org/jobs/nanotechnology-los-alamos-nm-80095613-d?utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Indeed<br />#5<br />http://chemistryjobs.acs.org/jobs/7528838/postdoctoral-appointee-materials-chemistry-synthetic-analytical<br />#6<br />http://jobview.monster.com/GetJob.aspx?JobID=157199353&aid=77186641&WT.mc_n=JSAHG10<br />#7<br />http://chemistryjobs.acs.org/jobs/7507440/lawrence-post-doctoral-fellowship <br />Links to: https://fellowship.llnl.gov/<br />Links to: https://fellowship.llnl.gov/eligibility-and-selection-process <br /><br />No age discrimination:<br />#8<br />https://cg.sandia.gov/psc/applicant/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_APP_SCHJOB.GBL?Page=HRS_APP_JBPST&Action=U&FOCUS=Applicant&SiteId=1&JobOpeningId=649781&PostingSeq=1<br />#9<br />https://lbl.taleo.net/careersection/2/jobdetail.ftl?job=81014&src=JB-10181<br /><br />For reasons of space, it is not possible for me to include the flowery, yet hypocritical statements about EE/EO which accompany the job descriptions. Who wrote them - Allison Campbell? In any case, interested parties can simply search the relevant web pages for the term “five” and they will quickly see what I am illustrating.<br />Generic Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17368825556427261716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-41865027343890651902015-09-22T11:39:50.725-04:002015-09-22T11:39:50.725-04:00Thanks GC. I read everything, even the outpouring...Thanks GC. I read everything, even the outpouring of frustration (some might call it venting) by fellow chemists. It's hard at times, but I do sense that I am one of the few candidates over the years who has listened to everyone and tried to approach the problem without preconceived notions of "the way things should be."Bryan Balazsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-57373647815719831142015-09-21T23:07:07.200-04:002015-09-21T23:07:07.200-04:00Hi Bryan, please continue to communicate with the ...Hi Bryan, please continue to communicate with the rank-and-file and act on their concerns. Broadcasting political generalisms, as your current competitor and predecessors are doing and have been doing, is insulting, and automatically disqualifies them from any role as a representative of US chemists. <br /><br />Heck, they probably won't even read this, and they did, then they wouldn't care.<br /><br />And remember the first law of thermodynamics.<br /><br />Generic Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17368825556427261716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-85080273460133287562015-09-21T16:07:46.411-04:002015-09-21T16:07:46.411-04:00GC: Yes, I am willing to question the status quo...GC: Yes, I am willing to question the status quo, but I am going to lead this by working collectively with employers, unemployed and employed chemists at all career levels, and ACS Staff, and I'm going to be open and transparent in my approach. I'm not going to make promises that I can't fulfill or engage in finger-pointing and blame mongering.Bryan Balazsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-36443593513909266012015-09-21T14:26:11.559-04:002015-09-21T14:26:11.559-04:00This is turning into the sort of conversation whic...This is turning into the sort of conversation which I instigate with random philosophers on Saturday nights in a certain dive bar in Palo Alto.<br /><br />The question which I will bring back to Bryan Balasz is which ACTIONS he would undertake that would distinguish him as ACS president from the meaningless styrofoam which his competitor just wrote on this blog? Well? <br /><br />Is the next ACS president willing to question the status quo?Generic Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17368825556427261716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-79190655816035016862015-09-21T08:31:21.020-04:002015-09-21T08:31:21.020-04:00It's an interesting question. How do we solve ...It's an interesting question. How do we solve the dual labor force problem? Do you raise the standards of the "inferior" (for lack of a better word) workers to that of the "superior" workers, or the reverse? <br /><br />Each method has serious drawbacks. You probably cannot do the former because of lack of available money to pay the "inferior" people (there really is enough money, but the "superior" people have it), but if you do the later then nobody will want the job, if everybody is an "inferior" worker.<br /><br />Looks like, again, capitalism has devised a system to maximize productivity at the expense of ethics.NMHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-30910881311946904242015-09-21T04:09:41.631-04:002015-09-21T04:09:41.631-04:00Oh, yeah. Here's another one of those 5-year-l...Oh, yeah. Here's another one of those 5-year-limit government job adverts. Only thing is, that in this case, they can't decide whether it's five years after the PhD or after the BSc:<br /><br />https://www.zintellect.com/Posting/Details/1377Generic Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17368825556427261716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-55160710112326593362015-09-21T03:57:12.257-04:002015-09-21T03:57:12.257-04:00Morris, I hear you. You are raising an important i...Morris, I hear you. You are raising an important issue for Bryan.<br /><br />At the crazy start-up where I had been working, there was a talented colleague (PhD organic chemist) who confessed to me that he previously had worked for _free_ for the same crazy nut as we were both working for at that moment. It boggles the mind. <br /><br />On the other hand, your observation of "social barriers ... erected to prevent wages of some jobs from declining" reminds me of what I see every day around Si valley: filthy rich people + those who do their manual labor. Whenever a neo-con or Tr**p supporter proclaims that others should just work harder to become millionaires, I ask myself: if we were all millionaires, then who will clean the toilets, etc.? <br /><br />What I mean by this is perhaps analogous to the first law of thermodynamics: there is a finite amount of resources in the world, and at least to me it seems more ethical to insure a minimal standard of living on that basis. Either that, or work for Georgia Pacific and the Koch Brothers. <br /><br />On the subject of dualization, I can easily think of at least 5-6 universities where I can promise you that I would do a better job of teaching, mentoring, writing research proposals and pushing papers than the current, tenured faculty. I kid you not. <br /><br />Thanks for not erasing this, CJ.Generic Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17368825556427261716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-18456859959458027612015-09-20T18:45:43.434-04:002015-09-20T18:45:43.434-04:00I appreciate your hearing me out. Along with G.C....I appreciate your hearing me out. Along with G.C. and Anon, I'm talking about the 'dualization' of the chemistry job market -you have people with largely the same skills doing largely the same work, for wildly varying levels of compensation and security and future prospects. This is accomplished by placing of barriers, implicit and explicit, preventing certain people from taking positions that they are otherwise qualified for.<br /><br />Dualization is everywhere these days: from the fine arts to auto assembly plants, academia to airline pilots, all the way back to my very first job bagging groceries under New Contract while my seniors worked under Old Contract. Econ 101 did not tell us the whole story. Sure, when supply of workers exceeds demand, wages must fall. But they don't do so uniformly. What seems to happen every time is that social barriers are erected to prevent wages of some jobs from declining - and this is 'paid' for by having people toiling away on the other side of the barrier for a much lower wage and the prospect of getting a 'break' someday. <br /><br />Does the ACS support such barriers? Or will it help tear them down? Morris Slutskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04059991912197018014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-14052132488666168092015-09-20T11:03:27.750-04:002015-09-20T11:03:27.750-04:00Hi Morris, and yep, I'm still here although I ...Hi Morris, and yep, I'm still here although I do like to sleep at some point each day. You raise a good point, and as we all know, a post-doc position used to be a chance to broaden your research background, publish some more, and (especially if going into academia) add to your resume by working with a well-known scientist. This still happens for some nowadays, but as you point out, post-doc positions can become the "valley of death" of many a career landscape.Bryan Balazsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-75654770264982546102015-09-20T10:54:34.122-04:002015-09-20T10:54:34.122-04:00Hi Eka, and yes, one of the very first things I wo...Hi Eka, and yes, one of the very first things I would do as President-Elect is get some real data on what's going on. I'm reaching the end of my patience with surveys that tell us that everything is fine (or at least getting better), when all you have to do is look around and listen to people to conclude that things are not fine.Bryan Balazsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-50219438728788409552015-09-20T04:47:13.289-04:002015-09-20T04:47:13.289-04:00Bryan, if you're still there: Question 4 -
N...Bryan, if you're still there: Question 4 - <br /><br />No, postdocs don't need any more 'training'. They do, however, need a way out of the trap where they're too old for entry-level industry positions and every higher position already requires "industry experience", so it's endless bench slavery for them. How about an internship program for them? Colleges don't care about postdocs because they aren't students, and neither do their departments, and the PI usually figures that they're doing the postdoc enough of a favor by contracting them in the first place.<br /><br />Maybe when times weren't so bad, industry was right to be wary of postdocs - obviously they were people who had tried to become research professors, failed at it, and would jump ship for a cushy tenure-track position at any moment. But when I was a postdoc, the labs were full of people who were just waiting until they got a real job and would work at any wage just to keep their resume current until then, but couldn't get one because somehow nothing they did actually qualified as 'experience'. Give them a way out and I'll vote for you, even if that means paying my back ACS dues, although I no longer consider myself a chemist. <br /><br />Morris Slutskyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04059991912197018014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-65865707610798083262015-09-20T04:46:49.323-04:002015-09-20T04:46:49.323-04:00Even Sandia is advertising on Craigslist for postd...Even Sandia is advertising on Craigslist for postdoc jobs:<br />https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/sci/5193679616.html<br />Quoting from the advert "The Ph.D. must have been conferred within one to five years prior to employment."Generic Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17368825556427261716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-15541796215540770432015-09-20T04:27:18.939-04:002015-09-20T04:27:18.939-04:00Here is the hypocritical assertion, found e.g. at ...Here is the hypocritical assertion, found e.g. at http://www.chem.pitt.edu/careers/polymerorganic-chemist-oak-ridge-natinal-laboratory (thanks, Google) for post-doctoral openings at ORNL:<br />"ORNL is an equal opportunity employer. All qualified applicants, including individuals with disabilities and protected veterans, are encouraged to apply. UT-Battelle is an E-Verify Employer"<br /><br />Of course, not everyone wants to become a "professional post-doc" but I hope that everyone reading this will also agree that if it opens a door for a potentially long-term job, then it would potentially worth considering. Even if one is personally far beyond the uniform 5-year limit of all government labs.<br /><br />It is challenging to make one's point on this subject, without being accused of being anti-social, etc. Nevertheless, Eka-silicon's suggestion of a comprehensive employment survey -starting with university graduates- is long overdue.<br /><br /><br />Generic Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17368825556427261716noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-76778451751541527582015-09-20T02:08:28.448-04:002015-09-20T02:08:28.448-04:00Hi Bryan,
First up, thanks and kudos for taking ...Hi Bryan, <br /><br />First up, thanks and kudos for taking the time and energy to 'get the pulse.' It's a first I am quite sure!<br /><br />Secondly, if elected, could you push for a real, robust, and professionally-fielded employment survey?<br /><br />http://chemjobber.blogspot.com/2011/12/2010-chemcensus-is-out-not-much-good.html<br /><br />While changes would make year-to-year comparisons difficult, it would provide some real data to understand the issues....<br /><br />Eka-siliconnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-86159864120301391682015-09-19T20:04:29.660-04:002015-09-19T20:04:29.660-04:00Anon 9:46 pm and 6:08 pm, thanks for the info. Th...Anon 9:46 pm and 6:08 pm, thanks for the info. This wasn't something I was fully aware of, another reason I'm grateful when chemists tell me what's happening from their perspective.Bryan Balazsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-16926809139707297442015-09-19T18:08:58.893-04:002015-09-19T18:08:58.893-04:00This is Anon 9:46 pm again –
Dr. Balasz, thank y...This is Anon 9:46 pm again – <br /><br />Dr. Balasz, thank you for responding to my post, and for stating that you will look into this federal fellowship ‘rule’. This problem is nationwide, and extends beyond laboratory research positions. Here in the Washington DC area where I live, fellowship positions for Ph.D.s even extend to regulatory and science policy work in federal agencies, where again the 5-year rule applies. This absolutely baffles me, since these two areas are often touted as alternative careers for scientists; but if you want to change into these fields from laboratory research, you better do it within the magic 5 year time frame. <br />I myself lost out on a regulatory position at the FDA, due to this rule. Several years ago, a supervisory chemist from the FDA contacted me about an opening in his office, that was originally listed as a permanent federal job (on the GS schedule) on USAJobs.gov. Long story short, the supervisory chemist lost the funding for this position, but then found funding for the work through a staff fellowship program. When he contacted me again, I asked about the 5 year ‘rule’, since I’m in my 40s. I never heard from him again; apparently he realized at that point that I was ineligible for the fellowship. <br />Why does our government do this to Ph.D. scientists? Our government doesn’t do this to other fields that require professional degrees, like in law, medicine, accounting, etc. I’ve met people from the private sector with these backgrounds, who have switched into government work, and have not had to contend with this 5 year rule. But scientists contend with it no matter what type of government-related work they are interested in doing. <br />The one federal agency that doesn’t adhere to this rule, that I know of, is the Patent and Trademark office. They also do not depend on fellowships/post-doc postions when they hire scientists.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-19585894927809480982015-09-19T15:03:29.442-04:002015-09-19T15:03:29.442-04:00I don't expect the ACS to magically increase t...I don't expect the ACS to magically increase the number of jobs for chemists, but I feel I was lied to when I heard the "STEM shortage" message repeatedly as an undergrad, and found it especially grating during a few long periods of unemployment I've been through. If they'd just cut out the "scientist shortage" talk, my animosity toward them would go away.<br /><br />On a separate note, I would be more interested in ACS-sponsored conferences and journals if they were less academic and more geared toward industrial chemists. Especially now that I'm at a smaller company that doesn't have NMR spectrometers and other such fancy things, I feel like there's little I can apply to my job at ACS events.KTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-29334659653222174132015-09-19T11:26:07.514-04:002015-09-19T11:26:07.514-04:00I grimly note that I wrote about such a policy cha...I grimly note that I wrote about such a policy change 4 years ago: http://chemjobber.blogspot.com/2010/12/science-is-mill-we-are-grist-real.htmlChemjobberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15932113680515602275noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8964719845369935777.post-11575519718066739642015-09-19T10:45:31.409-04:002015-09-19T10:45:31.409-04:00Anon and GC, I will look into this, but I believe ...Anon and GC, I will look into this, but I believe it is the general approach for Lawrence Livermore Lab to accept post-doc applicants who are no more than 5 years past receiving their Ph.D. I don't know how widespread this philosophy is at other national labs, though. I can say that LLNL does look closely at our post-docs as a potential hiring pool, but we also look at outside candidates as well. Part of the complexity (at least in LLNL's case) is that the Bay Area hiring environment is very competitive now for scientists and engineers in general, and we often see job offers that are declined in favor of [insert your favorite Bay Area high-tech company here].Bryan Balazsnoreply@blogger.com