...they're just in China. From today's edition of Chemical and Engineering News, an update on expat Americans by Linda Wang:
UPDATE: A knowledgeable insider provides a useful approximate pay scale (conversions performed on 25JUL2011 through Google):
entry level PhD: 10-15,000RMB/mo ($18,619 - $27,928/year)
Opportunities for expats in China continue to look bright, especially in the drug industry (C&EN, Feb. 14, page 47). Paul Tempest, who moved to China in 2009 and is now executive director of integrated services for Chinese contract research organization ShangPharma, says many opportunities exist for midcareer medicinal chemists with strong leadership skills. "We've had a couple of openings here, and we've tried to hire some people, but in some situations it can be pretty difficult to convince people to come here," he says, noting that family obligations remain a common barrier. "The ideal candidate is somebody that has maybe 10 to 15 years of experience in the U.S., has a sense of adventure, and is okay living outside their comfort zone."
Because medicinal chemistry is relatively new in China, Tempest says, few local people are experienced enough for leadership positions. "What's still missing and probably won't be here for a while is the experience and the leadership," he adds. "If you have experience leading projects and helping bench scientists get their work done, then that's something that's valuable here."I don't think anyone thinks that this is a viable option for most chemists, but for some, it might be a real choice I suspect that you'd have to be single and more or less fancy-free. (I doubt your new Chinese salary would pay your American mortgage...)
UPDATE: A knowledgeable insider provides a useful approximate pay scale (conversions performed on 25JUL2011 through Google):
entry level PhD: 10-15,000RMB/mo ($18,619 - $27,928/year)
5-10yr PhD w/ international industry experience: 20-30,000RMB/mo ($37,238 - $55,8570/year)
10+yr PhD w/international industry experience: 30-50,000RMB/mo ($55,857 - $93,095/year)Notes:
- Taxes are lower in China
- Cost of living can be much lower, if you don’t have kids.
- International companies here pay slightly more
- Process chemistry is in high demand here right now (experienced process and manufacturing chemists are probably bumped up on the above scale)
And, of course, this still leaves new grads or those without significant experience out in the cold. Awesome.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I've heard from colleagues with connections back in the Chinese CRO game, a lot of companies there actually prefer newly minted US PhDs versus those from Chinese institutions. They believe they are better trained and have a higher ability to think independently.
ReplyDeleteIf you have a degree from a solid school doing synthesis, I'd be stunned if you couldn't find work in China if you really wanted to go that route, just don't expect top wages.
Well, shoot, they couldn't be any lower than starting jobs for PhD chemists in the US, could they? :)
ReplyDeleteThe lowest PhD salary that I heard of in the US for an industrial position was slightly sub-50k. I'd be stunned if any PhD salary in China broke $15k.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I take that back. More like 30k for China. (I'm just guessing, I don't really know.)
ReplyDeleteCould anyone with experience comment on the typical salaries for PhDs in China? Would be useful to have the comparison.
ReplyDeleteFor that matter, how does the salary compare with the cost of living? I'd imagine that's the most important consideration.
ReplyDelete@Anonymous the cost of living in China might not be enough to compensate for the cost of having lived in the U.S. for the last ten years, especially when big debt was rather popular. I bet if China wanted to be truly competitive in taking U.S. talent, they would consider that in their package. Imagine some indentured servitude that would take care of your student loans/mortgages and whatever, they would probably be able to draw some talent and some enthusiasm from potential American employees.
ReplyDeleteEven with the low cost of living and tax breaks, that is a pittance of a salary. For those who are adventurous and capable of doing this, more power to you. Too bad there's not booming growth in Australia, I'd be there in a heartbeat.
ReplyDeleteReaders, note the above update where a knowledgeable person offers approximate ranges for Chinese pharma chemists.
ReplyDeleteWell I am ten years post PhD, multiple JMC articles, multiple patents, two compounds in clinic and earn about the same as a mid-level China based chemist - 34000 British Pounds.
ReplyDeleteYes, being a PhD chemist in the UK is no better financially than being a Chinese-based one - and probably a lot worse given the high cost of living.
Yes, the UK generally pays far lower for PhDs than many countries but Anon 11:25pm you are being fleeced by whoever you work for. I started just under that figure straight out of my PhD a few years ago
ReplyDeleteI expect you'd have to think twice about moving there with pets. I suppose they're legal, but people would probably try to steal your dog or cat and eat them, and you wouldn't want that.
ReplyDeleteapparently Chemist's salary is crappy every where in the world. Atleast in China, they have jobs.
ReplyDeleteI don't appreciate the racist bit about eating pets
ReplyDeleteActually, the racist bit about eating pets was pretty funny. The best humor is generally crude or politically incorrect. If you unclench a bit, you might have more fun.
ReplyDelete