The 2021 Chemistry Faculty Jobs List (curated by Andrew Spaeth and myself) has 5 research/teaching positions.
Want to help out? Here's a Google Form to enter positions.
In 2020-2021, we will be adding teaching professor positions, targeting positions that demonstrate an intention to renew permanently, 3 year terms and a promotion ladder and/or are titled "assistant teaching professor" or "associate teaching professor." We are adding community college positions if they explicitly offer tenure.
The 2020 Chemistry Faculty Jobs List finished with 557 positions and 80 teaching professor positions.
Want to talk anonymously? Have an update on the status of a job search? This will serve as the first open thread.
Want to help out? Here's a Google Form to enter positions.
In 2020-2021, we will be adding teaching professor positions, targeting positions that demonstrate an intention to renew permanently, 3 year terms and a promotion ladder and/or are titled "assistant teaching professor" or "associate teaching professor." We are adding community college positions if they explicitly offer tenure.
The 2020 Chemistry Faculty Jobs List finished with 557 positions and 80 teaching professor positions.
Want to talk anonymously? Have an update on the status of a job search? This will serve as the first open thread.
This thread closed at 12:00 PM Eastern on November 11, 2020. Click on the "load more" to see more.
Did Long Beach cancel their search for last cycle? I feel like they waited too long to start interviewing people last year.
ReplyDeleteGood point, I plan on applying this year. Thanks for setting this up so earl!
ReplyDeleteAnyone know what's happened to UMN Duluth the materials/polymer hire? I can't tell if they completed their search 'last' year
ReplyDeleteGood luck to everyone applying this year...
ReplyDeleteFirst time going through the process and looking to land at an R2/MS level institution. Any advice? Like don't make your cover letters/other materials so specific to the university that it seems like blatant pandering, push for explicit information on the tenure expectations, red flags to look for, etc.
ReplyDeleteI disagree-- you should make your materials as specific as possible. Show the university that you did your research on them and you're actually interested in the position. What research equipment do they have? What courses will you teach? Who will you collaborate with? Is there a teaching center, Diversity & Inclusion center, etc. you can use as a resource? If you're sincere about why you're applying to that job, it won't sound like pandering. Something too generic will make it seem like your uninterested and are just applying to as many positions as possible to increase your chances of finding a job.
Deleteso anyone think there's actually going to be hiring this year (decade) bc covid budget wrecking/hiring freezes? maybe its time for us all to to call it and learn to be HVAC repair people?
ReplyDeleteI'm optimistic that the jobs being posted are going to be quite secure. It seems like a lot of places are choosing to fill some gaps with adjuncts if they aren't sure about the long-term status, so hopefully places hiring for tenure-track are committing for the long haul.
DeleteDude. (Addressing the 7/21 comparison that was just published.) I think (hope) all the jobs that are posted will be secure (though wtf is up with the McMaster postings? They take to a null link now), but tracking the Spaeth overlay of 18 vs. 52 last year makes me fearful for this year's crop. I mean, maybe the timing is just off, but it looks like it'll be some sort of horrific inverse of the unemployment graph. If you have capital with your advisor, now is the time to secure (or do the work toward securing around Spring 2021) a year's extension as a postdoc or research investigator to position yourself well for 2022.
ReplyDeleteThere will certainly be *some* jobs this year, but I know we have a hiring freeze because of funding at my university and will not be posting a listing. I hope I'm wrong, but the current track suggests the number of open positions will be (optimistically) half of last years.
My best wishes and hope that you persevere. 2008 was a SometHIng (T) year too. Chins up.
McMaster fixed, thank you.
DeleteDon't see the Wesleyan position yet. Posted here https://careers.wesleyan.edu/postings/7385
ReplyDeleteLine 14, posted June 11
DeleteI wonder if we can set up a list for chemical engineering/materials science/bio engineering positions as well (openings related to chemistry in general!)
ReplyDeletehttps://jobs.sciencecareers.org/job/517940/department-of-chemistry-assistant-professor/?LinkSource=PremiumListing
ReplyDeleteHey CJ, how does this covid-depressed academic market compare to the Great Recession markets of 2008/2009?
ReplyDeleteFor those of you putting together your research budget estimates, I got one phrase for you: SALES TAX. That sht will eat up your hopes and dreams for nice lab supplies. Especially if you're in California. kthxbai
ReplyDeleteMust be a state-dependent thing. I've never paid sales tax on purchases made at private universities in several states.
DeleteWeird. Yeah, must be a California thing. It's about 10%.
DeleteI'm a PI in California. Statewide, there is a partial sales tax exemption on research equipment. Talk to your financial analyst.
Deletehttps://jobs.hr.wisc.edu/en-us/job/505302/assistant-professor
ReplyDelete2nd time applying this year, feeling pretty miserable about the situation. I am tempted to throw in the towel and call it quits on a scientific career. Constantly wrestling with the inner monologue of "if I really wanted this then I could stick it out longer" vs "the system is toxic, you have endured enough pain and suffering, you deserve to seek happiness on your own terms" is exhausting.
ReplyDeleteTo be honest all this recent talk about amplifying URM voices is especially disillusioning (as a member of multiple URM groups, my feeling is that all the recent "movements" are really just more of the same: lip-service and virtue signaling, with little reflection on how we each have and continue to cannibalize our trainees). This seems to manifest in what I can only call "extremely confused hiring practices," and ultimately leads to the unhealthy situation we have found ourselves in w.r.t advancing trainees to professorships. (but please do not confuse my criticism as an attempt to undermine the need for amplifying URM voices. my view is that this is the one of the most important problems in our field rn)
I'm sorry you have to go through the process again, but your comment got me wondering... It would be interesting to see the breakdown of the demographics of people hired last round. My hunch is that the majority is probably still white male. Anyone have that data compiled?
DeleteCan't give you perfect stats, but in one branch of chemistry for research asst prof positions last year, there were approximately (by sex: 9 male, 9 female) and (by ethnicity: 0 black, 1 asian, 13 white, 4 I'm not sure). Unfortunately, its hard for me to determine some ethnicity except by last name, so that last part is definitely skewed to make it look more white than it probably is. Sorry if this isn't what you were looking for. I'm being very vague because people are weird about these things.
DeleteI am also going through this process again, even though I had 5 interviews last year. In 3 places (out of 5) offers went to different Latino guys. One of the places decided to go with a senior-rank hire (it was an open-rank opening). The 5th place was communicating with me regarding their offer, but then things fell apart in February (I don't know why, maybe because of the pandemic since that university simply went into a silence mode). I would not rush into a conclusion that universities keep hiring only white male. A lot of URM people are being interviewed.
DeleteNot sure if it's just me but in filter view the "2020 vs 2021 comparison chart" completely blocks out the comments columns in the spreadsheet.
ReplyDeletehttps://jobs.sciencecareers.org/job/518552/open-rank-assistant-associate-or-full-professor/
ReplyDeleteAnybody got any advice for applying for open rank jobs? I made a huge mistake and took a post a low ranked institution for family reasons. I'd love to make a jump back to e.g. an assoc. Prof job at a decent place. Are these posts really open, or designed to attract specific people?
ReplyDeleteTwo questions about cover letters:
ReplyDelete1) Is it OK to repeat (verbatim) some parts of your teaching statement or diversity statement in your cover letter? I have some things like I really like the way they read and I worry that if they aren't in the cover letter, the committee could overlook them or not even get to them in the other documents, but they are more "guaranteed" to see them in a cover letter.
2) How long should a cover letter be? I read "more than 1 page, not a line over 2," but I've also seen 1 page as sufficient. I don't know if the rules are loose, but I was reading that sometimes a committee may eliminate a lot of applicants based solely on your cover letter and CV, so I feel an obligation to expound on things quite a bit in the cover letter.
In my experience (8 TT faculty searches over 10 years at 2 different institutions), minor repetition (1-2 sentences) is acceptable; however, I would encourage you to think about the purpose of each document in your package, and ask yourself whether one phrasing of a particular thought is truly the ONLY way it can be presented for each context. Liking the way your writing sounds is not grounds for repeating it in multiple instances.
ReplyDeleteI place much weight on the cover letter, since it is the first part of the package I read and I view it as your way to present a first impression. I don't need to know everything about you, just enough to be convinced that I should spend more time on your package. You should be able to do that in one page.
I agree with BoB. Assume the cover letter and first page of the CV are the only things that will be read before deciding whether to move on to the next application in the virtual pile. It's also an opportunity to highlight your ability to write professionally yet personally in a job where your primary function is communicating with people. The answer to one of the most common interview questions ("why are you applying HERE, specifically") should be evident in a cover letter.
ReplyDeleteGiven the size of academic letterheads, overflow to the TOP HALF of a second page is inevitable.
If a posting asks for a CV and a separate publications list, is it a good idea to leave the publications in the CV and also submit a separate publication list?
ReplyDeleteI did this when I applied last year. Same CV as usual and just copy/pasted the publication list out into a separate document as well.
Deletedid UT austin change their deadline?
ReplyDeleteLooks like it's been moved to 9/28. Good thing too since the Interfolio website is crashing.
DeleteThey did that last year too, although they also invited a bunch of people for interviews before they extended the deadline last year. Must be something they do every year.
DeleteUnion College has started scheduling phone interviews.
ReplyDeleteI applied for Union College but did not receive any further notification. Did you receive an email? Does that mean my application is rejected?
DeleteThe assistant professor position at Northwestern is a "continuing faculty position" and requires a 7 page research statement. https://www.chemistry.northwestern.edu/about/open-faculty-positions.html
ReplyDeleteIf you could kindly update the spreadsheet with this in the comments, I'd appreciate it.
I don't understand your request - can you clarify?
DeleteNot the OP, but I think they are confused by the line in the ad "This position is a continuing faculty position with an initial appointment of three years, beginning September 1, 2021." This is how most TT jobs work.
DeleteI have checked with Northwestern and this position is their traditional open call for assistant professors, and that statement is boilerplate language.
DeleteDoes anyone know if universities will generally send out invitations for phone interviews on the same day?
ReplyDeleteDef not. There are no norms, no standards, no timelines. Usually Universities tend to take a few weeks (like 3-7) to decide who to phone interview. Sometimes they take 1 week. Sometimes they take 5 months. It's really very unfortunate (and frustrating) that there is no transparency about timelines throughout this process.
DeleteThanks! So it is possible that they can send out invitations for interviews over several days, or even weeks? I am inclined to think that if someone gets an invitation early on versus someone who gets it later, then the former is their preferred candidate?
DeleteAh I may have misunderstood your question when I replied yesterday - my mistake. I think it is fairly common for an individual university to send all of the phone interview requests they are going to send in a relatively short period of time, but again this is not standardized. When I applied last year at least one school was reviewing applications as they were submitted and sent phone interview invites as they saw fit. So in that case it was over the course of multiple weeks. There are also situations where a department is just not thrilled with their first crop of phone interviews and send out another batch of invites - though prob less common. I wouldn't put too much stock into who may be a preferred candidate before phone/onsite interviews - it's not always easy to tell who will fit the best from the paper application. Sorry for the long answer, and good luck!
Deletetime stamp guessing that you're asking if you missed the cut for union college because someone got an invitation and you didn't - you can email the chair and flatly ask. you probably have nothing to lose. past experience suggests that if you haven't heard anything past the point at which someone else did you are at best being held in reserve in the very unlikely case that everyone else is terrible.
Deleteyes! and there will always be another opportunity on the horizon :-)
DeleteFor the openings at PUIs, they sometimes require at least two of the recommendation letters to specifically speak about teaching experience and potential. Does this mean that a letter would not meet their requirement if it mainly talks about research accomplishments and speaks very briefly about teaching?
ReplyDeleteIt depends on the PUI--if it's one with fairly heavy research, that kind of letter could be a positive (though they also want to know if you can lead research with undergrads, not just accomplish it yourself). If it's a very teaching heavy with little or no research, then they definitely want to know about your teaching abilities, not your research. Most PUIs are at least 50% teaching (many are 60-80%) and only 10-30% research, so the main focus in their searches is teaching and mentoring undergrads.
DeleteSince you have to ask: student preparedness at regional universities is appalling. A good chunk can't do fractions, any kind of algebra is completely out of the question. Chairs don't want new faculty to discover that fact on the job, so, yes, you need to prove that you can teach the students that you'll get.
DeleteHas anyone received any other interview invites from other institutions?
ReplyDeleteanyone have advice for dealing with 3 pages of research proposal? (UCLA)
ReplyDeleteWhat do we think about interpreting that statement as "3 pages of research, per proposal" (lol)
It's pretty much a summary at that point. I think in this case, they care more (at the application stage) about the direction/area of the research than the specifics. In these cases (short research proposals), I tried to emphasize the novelty and impact of the proposed research and abbreviated most of the "gory" details. I'm sure they'll ask about the specifics more as you get deeper in the process if they like the looks of the general info.
DeleteReceived rejection email that the position at Huntingdon College has been filled.
ReplyDeleteGot an email that Wesleyan University is only looking at candidates who already have PhDs.
ReplyDeleteIs anyone else having trouble finding a link for the Barnard College posting?
ReplyDeleteIt's up now. Barnard posting: http://careers.barnard.edu/postings/5194
DeleteUnion College has emailed out requests for scheduling virtual "on-campus" interviews.
ReplyDeleteis this different from the phone interview?
Delete@9:30 PM - yes, these interviews are different than the phone interviews
DeleteAnybody else try to submit an application to Northwestern today? Their call says "by October 1" to receive full consideration, but the link says no longer accepting applications.
ReplyDeleteI can only imagine they meant Sept 30th 11:59:59
DeleteYeah I mean that would be a correct interpretation of "by Oct 1," though I feel like it would be best if Universities stopped using ambiguous wording like this. Most schools use "by Date X" and include that date in the submission window, but some don't. It would be much better to use "On or before Dat X" imo. Also, it seems disingenuous for NW in particular to use the phrase "in order to receive full consideration" when they don't intend to accept any applications after that date.
DeleteHas anyone heard back from Vassar?
ReplyDeleteVassar started scheduling Zoom interviews last Friday (10/2).
DeleteVassar started scheduling Zoom interviews last Friday (10/2).
DeleteThanks! I did not get any email so this is probably not a good sign.
DeleteHas anyone heard from Vassar about the second multi-day interview?
DeletePacific Lutheran University has sent out emails requesting Zoom interviews.
ReplyDeleteHas anyone heard back from Wesleyan?
ReplyDeleteSomeone above (10/1 12:19pm) mentioned hearing back that they were only looking at candidates w/ PhDs. Other than that, I'm also waiting.
DeleteAnyone heard back from Denison University?
ReplyDeleteI would guess it's too early - I would expect just under a month before responses on average. But I too await responses from there.
DeleteReceived email for phone/ZOOM interview today.
DeleteIs that viewed negatively to apply for both chemistry department and chemical engineering department at the same school? For example, if the search committee happen to know that the application was submitted for the other department as well.
ReplyDeleteI'm not an admin, but I can't imagine its a negative. In fact, this seems to be a plus to me. It shows a) that you have more than just a passing interest in their school and b) that your work is interdisciplinary enough to encompass two potential departments. Many applications encourage interdepartmental work, so this seems like a win for you.
DeleteThank you for sharing your thoughts!
DeleteDoes anyone know what a "description of research accomplishments" should be in front of a description of future research plans (going to submit 9 pages for that)? I assume it needs to be substantial. I have a condensed 3-page past/ongoing research summary, but I worry that is too long and overshooting what they want. However, if I cut it down to one page or less, I feel like they could almost get that info from my CV. I wish they would just put a page limit so I know what to write toward. Any thoughts on how long/detailed this should be? Should I include research awards that are already on my CV?
ReplyDeleteWhen I applied I went with 2 pages and focused on completed projects. I resonate with the "why can't they just read my CV" feeling though. Like the apps who require a publication list in addition to your CV - come on.
DeleteAnyone heard back from USNA, Bryn Mawr College, or Lawrence University?
ReplyDeleteThere's definitely no way anyone has heard from those schools. It's been 7 business days since they closed. Don't expect anything for a month.
DeleteHas anyone heard anything about the USF positions?
ReplyDeleteSee the reply above. Don't expect to hear anything for at least a couple weeks (usually closer to a month) after the closing date.
DeleteAny advice on how to prepare for Zoom interviews? Thank you in advance!
ReplyDeleteHas anyone heard anything about the Hamilton College position?
ReplyDeleteNothing for me. It looked like they might be hiring for multiple positions, though, so who knows how long that will take.
DeleteNothing from me either, I send an email requesting some logistic details (letter of rec. deadline) before the application deadline and they never responded which I found odd. Could be they are have a lot to go through and COVID hasn't made it easier. Though it made me wonder if they cancelled the position(s) due to COVID and did not bother to take the application thing down.
DeleteBerea College is scheduling Zoom interviews.
ReplyDeleteBerea College has sent out emails requesting Zoom interviews.
ReplyDeleteAmherst is conducting Zoom interviews
ReplyDeleteIt'll be some time before HR is done with the ad, but I'm co-chair of a dual search at Univ. of South Carolina Aiken (PUI). Hiring for analytical and p-chem at our ACS "one of each" department. Watch this space, and I'd be glad to field unofficial inquiries in the meantime. nicholasm at usca.edu. We will be reviewing applications as they're received as soon as the ad goes up.
ReplyDeleteHas the screening process started and have successful applicants been notified?
DeleteHi y'all.
ReplyDeleteFYI, University of Toronto Mississauga is scheduling Zoom interviews.
Good luck my brave ones!
I should have been more precise, since there are two positions at UTM. Interviews are being scheduled for the position for Research Assistant Professor (priority date Oct 5th), not for the teaching position (priority date Oct 19th).
DeleteThe teaching stream position started scheduling Zoom interviews on Oct 30.
DeleteReceived a US Naval Academy phone interview request.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't mind me asking, are you an experimentalist or theorist?
DeleteAmherst College starts to schedule virtual "on-site" interview from the end of October.
ReplyDeleteIs this different that the Zoom interviews described above (10/15 3:31pm)? I didn't know if they are jumping straight to "on-sites" or if this was for after a Zoom interview.
DeleteThat is different from the first Zoom interview. It is the second round, a more comprehensive two-day interview.
DeleteGood luck! Seems that I didn't get an interview for this one.
DeleteHas anyone heard anything about the King's University position?
ReplyDeleteI received a request for answers to questions about faith and integration of faith with the position.
DeleteHas anyone heard back from CSU Long Beach?
ReplyDeleteAnyone heard back from Wesleyan or Hamilton?
ReplyDeleteWesleyan has scheduled zoom interviews.
DeleteAny word from University of Washington?
ReplyDeleteNo news yet...
DeleteAustin College has sent out emails requesting Zoom interviews.
ReplyDeleteBryn Mawr has scheduled zoom interviews
ReplyDeleteThanks for the notification. Like the above post, do you know if PUIs generally prefer experimentalists?
DeleteI really have no idea. That being said, it's not hard to find computational chemists at PUIs, so there can't be a huge preference for experimentalists. If memory serves, Haverford College had a search last year that was explicitly looking for a computational person. One might even speculate that PUIs might prefer to have at least one computational person on the faculty, since computational work doesn't require as much space/money as experimental work (that's my impression anyway), both of which can be limited at PUIs. But I could also certainly imagine a department that has a computational person preferring an experimentalist for a new hire. You never know what any one department is looking for, so best not to get too discouraged.
DeleteOn the other hand, computationalists tend to bring less grant money in. No one can tell what it going on in the committee's head.
DeleteIn my experience, there's no preference. PUIs are much more interested in how the undergrads are going to be involved in developing and driving the research. I know plenty of experimentalists and theorists at PUIs--outside of the trends of different areas, I haven't seen a difference or preference.
DeleteBut PUIs need lab classes which are essentially experimental.
DeleteTheorists, at PUIs and other types of schools, teach experimental labs. Every PUI I've worked at has had at least one theorist and has them teaching labs. Especially at PUIs, people teach labs and classes that are not 100% their subfield of expertise and research, regardless of whether they're theorists or experimentalists.
DeleteIs it true that most PUIs prefer to have one theorist (with the rest being experimentalists)?
ReplyDeleteGenerally, unless there's a specific search, PUIs don't have a preference. They're looking for people who can teach the classes and conduct research with undergrads. They want people with appropriate research for the school (not too narrow, not too broad), a research plan that involves undergrads, and research that fits in their budget. There are undoubtedly some PUIs with no theorists, some with one, some with more than one. Theorist v experimentalist isn't a major focus (or even probably a minor one) in most searches. The focus at (nearly all) PUIs is teaching then research.
DeleteNot necessarily. Good points made in the comments above. A theorist would be teach experimental labs at a PUI (so it wouldn't be a problem from a curriculum standpoint) and they do require less money and space. The other factor they probably consider (depending on faculty research expectations) is how the faculty research interests mirror those of the student population. So, if you want student research opportunities and more students are interested in hands-on projects, you wouldn't want a huge chunk of the faculty to be theorists. On the other hand, there could be schools where there are strong ties with other departments (physics, math or computer science) who might have plenty of interested students and would be excited to have multiple theorists. Given a general fear of math among students and a plethora of premeds who need hands on experience, it would probably be unusual to have a department that was more than 20% theorists but certainly you could have more than one.
DeleteI beg to differ. Asking a theorist to teach experimental labs wouldn't be the best fit. It's like asking an experimentalist to teach theory. It's hard to see PUIs employing more than one theorist unless there are secondary factors involved.
DeleteWe had this exact conversation during our search last year. Theorists ain't cheap--new cluster nodes and workstations will chew through an experimentalist-sized startup pretty quickly.
DeleteIn general, a PUI search is looking for someone to 1) teach the courses we said we need you to teach and 2) perform research that 2a) is feasible with the resources at our institution and 2b) undergraduates would want to do.
No more, no less.
Theory faculty member in PUI here. It would be unusual for a dept to assign a theorist to teach an advanced lab for majors, that will go to an experimentalist in the appropriate discipline, if available. But a dept will also have a lot of intro labs and non-major labs and there is always a shortage of people to teach those. Those labs are not that complicated and there is no reason a theorist with a good undergraduate training in chemistry cannot teach them.
ReplyDeleteMy favorite part about applying is uploading my CV, then spending the next 30 min adding every piece of data from my CV into the application software. Honors and Awards?...too bad I didn't have a section for that in the exhaustive document I just uploaded. I understand that many places may not care if you fill that in or not, but if you don't care, please state that in the listing so I don't waste everyone's time.
ReplyDeleteAny word from Hamilton College?
ReplyDeleteAny word from Middlebury College?
ReplyDeleteJust got a Zoom interview request - so I assume they are in the first interview phase now.
DeleteAnyone heard back from Lawrence University?
ReplyDeleteAny news from University of Virginia (the joint position between Chemistry and Chemical Engineering)?
ReplyDeleteAnyone heard anything about the UT Austin Job?
ReplyDeletehttps://cm.utexas.edu/events/month.calendar/2020/12/26/-
DeleteThey have posted a faculty recruitment seminar, fwiw
This lines up with what Anonymous September 15, 2020 at 11:52 AM posted, where even though they pushed their priority date they may have started to review applications earlier. It seems pretty fast to have a seminar scheduled in a month, and it's the only one on there.
DeleteThey did initial zoom interviews a couple weeks ago and now appear to be scheduling (remote) on-site visits
DeleteYea, seems a bunch of recruitment seminars are now posted on their site.
DeleteAnyone heard anything about University of South Florida faculty position(s)?
ReplyDeleteNot yet for me. I am also waiting on this one.
DeleteAny news from Samford?
ReplyDeleteAnyone every bring this topic up at there teaching interviews:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/09/why-the-s-in-stem-is-overrated/279931/
Or a position that requires a PhD in organic chemistry that only pays in the mid-50s : https://chemistryjobs.acs.org/job/29570/synthetic-organic-chemist/
I have seen some jobs on C&EN news pay only 15 bucks an hour in the Suburbs of Chicago, I wonder if the chemist would be eligible for food stamps?
Another topic to bring up is why be an ACS member when ACS pays the top executives over 1 million a year? Most of the top paid earners in ACS are business people not scientists.
This is certainly a relevant topic, but I think the problem is that there are so many PhD level chemists that they can lower salaries and still get applicants that, on paper, are very qualified. Even now, with covid producing even fewer academic jobs than normal years, I worry that I'm going to get lowballed and have to choose between taking the job I want at a lower salary or doing yet another year in my postdoc (assuming I'm even able to). I look back at how many 80+ hr weeks and years I spent on this and wonder if the payoff, or lack thereof, is going to be worth it. I love what I do, but if I had started at Home Depot/Lowes out of undergrad I would have much more money and have worked my way up the ladder by now without working 80 hr weeks every week. Keep in mind that an assistant manager at HD/Lowes makes more than mid-$50k.
DeleteI think its very relevant, I agree the market is oversaturated with PhD chemists and its all about supply and demand. I don't know if you know this or not, but when you get a faculty position you are going to quickly learn that your colleagues in the business department are starting out double your salary and for the most part did not have to do any postdoc. I understand you have to love what you do, but there is also something called financial independence which people don't realize until there well into there careers. You gave an example of HD/Lowes, I am going to try to one up that with Waffle House (WH).
DeleteGet your bachelors degree and start out at WH with a 14k stock option the first day and make anywhere from 45-61k. Honestly alot of R1 research schools will only pay in the mid 70s, keep in mind no graduate school, and no postdocs. This would be the equivalent to your first year in graduate school. I am a scientist so here's my reference: http://whcareers.com/career-path/#manager-trainee
After 18 months become a district manager. Lets just say this is the equivalent of passing your cumulative exams. Get an additional 38k in stock options and a salary of 65.8 - 98.6k. I don't think this is small change.
The next step would be graduating with your PhD, and then doing a postdoc/getting a faculty position= district manager. Get an additional 65k stock option and make a salary of 91.7 - 119.3. In all honesty how can you promote STEM when the money and jobs are not there. Its not like how it was back in the 50s, 60s, and 70s when you earned a PhD then when on to a good paying job without having to do the postdocs. The issue lays where the funding goes and the priorities of the country. But if the priorities are being a capitalist country you are going to have to adapt to it. Its not too late to make a career change, and I do mean this with sincerity. I know you worked very hard to get where you are at, but your work will not be appreciated nor will you ever be able to catch up to your business school colleagues no matter how good you are at your job. Usually faculty raises are based on a percentage so that means if you get a 2 percent raise that raise will be higher for that business faculty member every year. It takes alot of dedication, a high IQ, and discipline to complete a PhD in chemistry, its just you are not rewarded accordingly when you get out. You will also learn that we are in a consumer based industry where the consumer is always right. Obviously you would not be able to promote such ideas as they would be shot down, ignored, etc by the administration. I believe that the schools that have students that are strong in chemistry should steer them towards careers in which they can be very high earners. This would help out in terms of alumni relations as well. You may say medical school, but not everyone wants to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to do so. Steer this top performers into another undergraduate degree that they can actually earn in a decent living in.
This discussion is very true...and also very sad!
DeleteThis discussion is not "very true". Many industry jobs after PhD start >100k, in particular in pharma and oil/gas. That level of income for somebody 25-30 would put you around 90th percentile in the US. It's not necessarily a career path to take if you want to be super wealthy, but let's not pretend those making >100k/year are not high earners. Pro-tip for those interviewing: suggesting STEM is useless and we should direct our students to working at WH instead will likely not play well. Troll a different thread.
DeleteI think its important to note that financial motivations of someone aspiring to be a faculty member (the kind of person most likely to be reading this thread) is probably not to be "super rich." Personally, I knew that academia would not cause me to rake in the money, but I'm pursuing it because I love teaching and "small" level research. I recognize that teaching at a PUI is going to put me in the $55-75k range (escalators notwithstanding), but I'm ok with that. I'm a simple person who doesn't need nearly as much revenue if I'm doing what I love. If I suddenly made $100k, I'd probably donate 30+% of it. I already donate 15% of my postdoc salary. I have always been smart about saving and allocating money, so I'm currently debt free and have investments to outlast me and help my future children. That's all good enough for me. In the end "if money's where you find happiness, you'll always be poor" (I'll let you search the lyrics). I decided long ago that I would never chase money and I'm staying true to that. While working at WH/HD/Lowes might get me ever so slightly ahead financially, it wouldn't satisfy me existentially. I will agree that making only $75k for an R1 position would be kind of crazy to me because of how much work is required, but I fall back on the "it's not work to me" comments I've heard from R1 friends.
DeleteAn important thing to note about 3:31's comment is that while most industry jobs pay >100k, keep in mind where that job is. A 120k salary in SF/LA/Boston is more comparable than you might think to $65k in a small town with lower cost of living. As I alluded to above, you have to decide what you want in life.
You may be surprised by the amount of work that is waiting for you at a PUI. Unless you are already a faculty working in a "relax" PUI but I don't know many of those. The work load is high in a PUI, but of different nature compare to R1. However, R1 or PUI, there is always smart cookies that can get away with lower workload by usually making other working harder.
DeleteA PUI should not be viewed as R1 light. I'm an assistant prof at a top PUI, and I'm working >90 hours per week right now. The work is different than R1, but not less.
DeleteDenison University is scheduling on-site interviews.
ReplyDeleteAre UT Austin and Wesleyan the only PhD institutions who have interviewed so far?
ReplyDeleteGeorgia Tech Chemical & Biomolecular Eng sent out requests for preliminary interviews last week.
ReplyDeleteAny new updates about PUIs?
ReplyDeleteSeems like 90% of the updates so far are from PUIs...is it normal? Some R1s had early ads and early deadlines but no news except for UT-Austin. A worried 1st time applicant here...
DeleteDefinitely normal. If you check out previous years' threads, it gives a good sense of the usual timelines and order of things
DeleteLast year, a lot of PUI offers went out early December. R1 were >1 month behind.
DeleteThank you both! That's reassuring.
DeleteVassar is scheduling remote "on-site/finalist" interviews.
ReplyDeleteColorado College has scheduled zoom interviews
ReplyDeleteWhat position is this?
DeleteZoom interviews were scheduled for a general chemistry+biochemistry lab lecturer position that is not (currently) included on the ChemJobber list.
DeleteAustin College is scheduling on-site interviews.
ReplyDeleteChem Ed at UTEP is scheduling virtual visits now for finalists
ReplyDeleteUniversity of Texas Austin open TT both are now scheduling virtual visits
ReplyDeleteDid they do initial phone interviews, or did they jump straight to virtual visits?
DeleteThey did initial zoom interviews and selected from that pool
DeleteDavidson College has sent out emails requesting Zoom interviews.
ReplyDeleteUniversity of South Florida are now scheduling Teams interviews.
ReplyDeleteUniversity of Texas at El Paso has sent out emails for Zoom interviews.
ReplyDeleteAny updates from Lawrence University?
ReplyDeleteAny updates from Hamilton? It is slightly odd since their priority date was in September.
ReplyDeleteNothing for me. Similar to someone above, I reached out to the chair before the priority and never heard back, which seemed really weird.
DeleteI asked some general question and got their reply in late August, but nothing after.
DeleteAnybody have experience with the initial interview (aka zoom interviews) - how do they go? What do they ask, etc. - any help would be great!
ReplyDeleteIn the ones I've been in so far, the committee will introduce themselves and may ask you to do the same. The first question is almost always in some form or another, "Why do you want this job?" That may refer to the job in general (i.e. R1 vs PUI) and/or the job specifically at that institution. After that, I think it will depend on the type of institution and the priorities of the committee. At a PUI, they will definitely ask about teaching experience in some form another and may ask about research experience as well. I'm not as familiar with R1s, but I suspect they will be very interested in your research agenda. In general, they just want to find out if you'd be a good fit for the job. This round of applications, I've also gotten a question every time about diversity, equity, and inclusion. They also generally leave plenty of space for you to ask questions, so I would be prepared to do that as well, specific to the institution/department. Good luck!
DeleteLawrence University is scheduling initial zoom interviews
ReplyDeleteIs this the one from Wisconsin?
DeleteVirginia Military Institute and University of Louisiana Monroe are conducting initial zoom interviews
ReplyDeleteVirginia Military Institute has already had several on campus interviews as well.
DeleteAnybody hear from University of Washington? Their priority date was quite awhile ago now, no?
ReplyDeleteOf the R1 schools, UW, MIT, Caltech, UNLV, Northwestern, and UT Austin had priority dates around 10/1, and based on the comments here, only UT Austin has done any sort of interviewing so far. Either no one who has been interviewed at these schools or a member of the search committee has posted a status update yet, or searches are running slower this year because of the pandemic, or both.
DeleteAgreed with anon above. I think on UW calender they have a faculty meeting today, so perhaps some news will come this weekend
DeleteI would also point out that some point might find it a little awkward to be trying to schedule these kinds of high stake interviews in the midst of an insane presidential election.
DeleteAny idea how schools will handle on site interviews (meeting faculty, giving seminars, etc.) - will everything be virtual? Virtual dinners and drinks...
DeleteFor what it's worth, I submitted an application to an MSE position and got an autoresponse thanking me for my application, which included the line: "We appreciate your patience as we review applications, which is likely to be slower than normal this year."
DeleteThere is always a chance that people being interviewed simply are not sharing the updates.
DeleteIn the olden days, you need a Ph.D. to get an R1 position, then a postdoc, and now you need NIH or NSF grants on top of those. How competitive has this become!
ReplyDeleteYou need a good postdoc to get a PUI position as well, despite the fact that at most places you'll do very little research outside of senior projects and the majority of the understanding you need to teach was developed by your second year of graduate school (advanced courses notwithstanding). It's all part of the academic drift and it's affecting everyone. College is the HS of 40 years ago (in that it's expected that you will go and you need to finish to get most jobs) and the trend continues on as you go up. That's why offering online MS degrees has become like printing money for colleges; you've got to look better than the next guy who also got a 4-year bachelors degree. I'm not completely sure where/when it stops.
DeleteI've enrolled my 4 year old in online high school to get a head start.
DeleteAny other updates?
ReplyDeleteTennessee-Chattanooga is conducting initial zoom interviews
ReplyDeleteThanks for the update. That's a bummer for me, I was really interested in that one.
DeleteAs people know, I keep a light touch on the comments. At the same time, asking for broad updates without a specific institution isn't helpful, and just fills up inboxes. I don't plan on making this statement again, nor do I plan on specific action. Thanks. - CJ
ReplyDeleteReceived rejection letter from The University of Tennessee at Martin (Analytical Chemistry position)
ReplyDeleteChapman has started scheduling screening interviews via Zoom
ReplyDeleteI am a little surprised. I thought Chapman canceled their posting?
DeleteDoes anyone know of a resource like Chemjobber that indexes Materials Science jobs?
ReplyDeleteCaltech is scheduling pre-interviews.
ReplyDeleteUC Davis is scheduling preliminary interviews
ReplyDeletewhich subfield?
DeleteNot 9:38, but organic call for me.
DeleteDid University of Utah start calling people for their medicinal or biochemistry spots?
ReplyDeleteCSU Long Beach is scheduling initial interviews
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